Karongozi sheds light on the unique aspects of the case, including the controversial witnesses for the defense and their surprising claims, as well as the challenges faced in ensuring that the truth about the events of 1994 is fully revealed.

This interview offers a critical perspective on justice, the complexities of such trials, and the lasting impact on survivors.

The trial of Eugène Rwamucyo is underway at the Palais de Justice de Paris in France.

{{IGIHE}}: {{Who is Eugène Rwamucyo?}}

{{Karongozi}}: Eugène Rwamucyo is a Rwandan who hails from Musanze district. He studied Occupational Health Sciences and was one of the Directors at the University of Rwanda Health Center in Huye district.

He is accused of planning and execution of the Genocide against the Tutsi in Butare. As someone who wielded significant influence, he is currently on trial and as usual is still presumed innocent. As representatives of the affected, we are striving to ensure the truth comes to light.

{{IGIHE}}: {{There have been many trials, what is unique about this one?}}

{{Karongozi}}: The first unique aspect about this case is that the defendant claims, in his view, that there should not have been so many political parties and even goes as far as bringing in witnesses whose testimony aligns with his narrative.

Among these witnesses are people like Ndindiriyimana, the former Commander of the Gendarmerie, Habyarimana Emmanuel, former Minister of Defense, Jean Marie Vianney Ndagijimana, former Minister of Foreign Affairs, and Jean Kambanda, the Prime Minister during the interim government, among others.

These individuals still hold on to ideologies that contributed to the Genocide against the Tutsi, and as we go through the trial, it becomes evident that holding onto such beliefs is inappropriate, especially when they led to the Genocide.

Additionally, there are international witnesses like Charles Onana, who was supposed to appear but later expressed uncertainty about attending. There are also people like Stephan Smith, a journalist for ‘Le Monde,’ and Hervé Deguine, among others, whose testimony contrasts with what is known about the Genocide against the Tutsi.

These witnesses seem to be defending Rwamucyo’s stance. While he acknowledges some atrocities, he denies having committed Genocide.

{{IGIHE: Why do the witnesses focus heavily on events in Butare?}}

{{Karongozi}}: You know that the Genocide in Butare started after Theodole Sindikubwabo’s speech on April 19, 1994, but even before this massacres were being planned and some going on unnoticed.

Rwamucyo is accused of participating in meetings organized by members of the Coalition for the Defense of the Republic (CDR), where plans for the killings were made.

The Genocide in Butare was executed in a shocking manner, with roadblocks set up everywhere, bulldozers and caterpillars brought from Kigali, prisoners forced to bury the dead, and mass graves filled with victims from various locations such as Matyazo, Ngoma Parish, the university buildings, Hotel Faucon, and the Butare Prefecture.

Even hospitals weren’t spared; patients were taken out and killed, their bodies dumped in pits. The genocide was conducted swiftly and in an organized manner.

There were security meetings at the Prefecture level, attended by figures like Higaniro, who was sentenced in Belgium, and various local officials, military officers, and police. These meetings determined who would be killed.

Rwamucyo is accused of being responsible for the disposal of bodies, but they buried some people before they had fully decomposed. The brutality was evident in how they quickly moved around, leaving no place untouched.

{{IGIHE: How are the plaintiffs seeking reparations handling the case?}}

{{Karongozi}}: In any trial, plaintiffs’ rights are respected, and this is no exception. We’ve seen individuals speaking with knowledge of the country and providing insights into how things were.

We’ve heard from people like Herene Dumant, a historian, and Damien Vandermeersch, who started the Butare trials in Belgium. Jean François Dupaquier, a renowned journalist, also testified. These people have a reputation for telling the truth about the Genocide against the Tutsi.

We also saw people from Médecins Sans Frontières, like Rony Zakaria, who was helping people in hospitals but had to flee after witnessing the massacre of the patients.

Other individuals continue to tell the truth, and as lawyers, we fight for that truth because we have become accustomed to these trials, even though each one has its unique aspects.

We are still expecting more survivors to testify, as they are the foundation of our history in these trials. Their experiences and what they heard or witnessed are deeply respected in court. While Rwamucyo’s representatives may question them, it is not as harsh as in Arusha, where witnesses were sometimes mistreated.

Here, the trial respects both sides, and we believe that the truth will continue to emerge.bWe have two more weeks left, and our schedule aims to conclude by the end of October.

{{IGIHE: A witness claimed that they went to kill with Rwamucyo, but Rwamucyo denies knowing them. What does this mean?}}

{{Karongozi}}: It appears to be a strategy, as he claims not to know almost everyone, although it’s understandable that after 30 years, one might forget certain people. However, it seems improbable that one would forget everyone.
These are individuals he worked with, such as drivers and secretaries, people he encountered regularly, so denying knowledge of them is difficult to comprehend.

Another example that puzzled us was when he claimed not to know the nearby multipurpose building. There are moments where you can tell he is exaggerating, but it is his right to remain silent.

{{IGIHE: What has surprised you the most in this trial?}}

{{Karongozi}}: It’s the way witnesses for the defense seem to mock us. Jean Kambanda, for instance, claimed that it was the RPF (Rwandan Patriotic Front) that killed people in Butare, referencing Robert Kajuga.

Others echoed similar statements, including Rwamucyo, who denies that the killings were planned.
Some also argue that the killings were fueled by anger following the shooting down of Habyarimana’s plane. But how could this anger travel over 100 kilometers to Butare, where Tutsis were then killed?

Was this anger hidden for over 10 days, only to erupt later? It clearly contradicts the claim that the Genocide wasn’t planned.

We have shown evidence dating back to 1990, even from Dr. Abel Dushimimana, who was arrested as a spy despite being a Hutu. When asked why he was arrested, he said he didn’t know, but that it might have been because of his appearance, suggesting that Rwamucyo looked more like a Tutsi than he did.

Do you remember in 1990 when older people like Kamugunga and Gakuba were killed, and students like Munyeshuri and Modeste Mungwarareba, who led the Seminary, along with Father Musoni, were imprisoned?
They fired shots in the night of October 4-5, 1990, claiming that the RPF had reached Kigali. The next day, over 8,000 people were arrested. All of this had been planned.

{{IGIHE: After handling many cases like this, how do you, as a Rwandan lawyer, approach them?}}

{{Karongozi}}: I’ve developed a practice of visiting the locations where the accused are alleged to have committed their crimes before the trial starts. Even though I spent many years in Butare, I go there to speak with the people we are defending, as many cannot come to court here.

I visit various sites to understand the current situation, especially where new buildings have been constructed, so I can be informed. I also gather information myself—not by conducting investigations but by listening to survivors to ensure I have enough knowledge for the case.

It’s an ongoing battle, and with my colleague Gisagara, we have the advantage of understanding Kinyarwanda, so when people use terms like ‘kora’ (work) or ‘kubohora’ (liberate), we understand the meaning fully.
{{karirima@igihe.com
{}}}

In an exclusive interview, renowned lawyer André-Martin Karongozi who is representing the survivors provides deep insights into the trial of Rwamucyo.